East Java, Indonesia — Umar Patek was launched from jail last December after serving simply over half of a 20-year prison sentence for the Bali vacation island battles in 2002, which eliminated 202 individuals. He was likewise founded guilty for a series of bomb attacks on Christian churches on Christmas Eve, 2000, that left 18 dead.
On the run for practically a years, 57-year-old Patek from Central Java was jailed in 2011 in Abbottabad in Pakistan and extradited to Indonesia where he was condemned of bomb making and murder the list below year. The United States State Department had actually provided a benefit of $1m for any info causing his capture.
Patek’s early jail release for great behaviour in 2022 was dramatically criticised by Australian authorities and the loved ones of the numerous victims of the Bali battle.
Al Jazeera just recently spoke with Patek at his home in East Java where he discussed his function in Bali and exposed that the dreadful bomb attack twenty years back was an act of vengeance for the violence caused on Palestinian individuals by Israeli forces.
He likewise discussed repentance and of being uncertain whether God would forgive him for eliminating many civilians.
Al Jazeera: How did you end up being included with Jemaah Islamiyah (JI), the armed group behind the Bali Bombings?
Umar Patek: In 1991, I was operating in Malaysia and fulfilled Mukhlas [a senior JI figure who was sentenced to death and executed in 2008 for masterminding the Bali bombings] in Johor Bahru at the Lukman Hakim Islamic Boarding School.
I dealt with a plantation in Malaysia, and would go to spiritual classes at night at the school. Mukhlas asked me to work at the school, so I moved in. After 3 months at the school, he used me the possibility to go to Pakistan. I wished to study and he stated I might study faith there.
I initially went to Peshawar and after that to Sadda, a tribal location in Pakistan which is close to the border with Afghanistan, where there was a military college that trained individuals to be mujahideen [Islamic fighters]From there I relocated to a military college in Torkham in Afghanistan. In Afghanistan, I was in the exact same class as [Bali bomber] Ali Imron. In overall, I was away for 5 years from 1991 to 1995.
We found out whatever at the military college to train us to be mujahideen, such as how to utilize weapons, map reading and bomb making. We practiced exploding bombs in locations where there were no individuals, like in caverns or on hillsides, so that there would not be any deaths.
We likewise wished to ensure that no goats were inadvertently eliminated due to the fact that great deals of individuals tend goats in Afghanistan.
When I completed my basic training in 1995, I went to the Philippines to sign up with the Moro Islamic Liberation Front due to the fact that I supported their cause as a Muslim.
From 1995 to 2000, I lived at Camp Abubakar in the Bangsamoro area in the Philippines, however the camp was caught by the Philippine Army in July 2000 and I was informed to leave since I appeared like I originated from the Middle East.
My household is initially from Yemen, although I am the 4th generation of my household to be born in Indonesia. My face didn’t appear like individuals in Moro.
In December 2000, I returned to Indonesia and stuck with Dulmatin [a JI member and one of the most wanted men in Southeast Asia who was nicknamed “the Genius” because of his expertise in electronics for bombs]Dulmatin asked me to go to Jakarta for work. He worked selling vehicles and he stated I might likewise try to find work there, which is how I ended up being associated with the Christmas Eve church battles.
AJ: You confessed to blending the chemicals for the bombs utilized in the Bali battle in 2002 and the Christmas Eve church battles in 2000. You likewise stated you didn’t understand what the bombs would be utilized for. Where did you believe the bombs would be planted?
Patek: I did not blend the bombs for the church battles, I just understood about the bombs at the time of shipment. It was Eid al-Fitr [the end of the Muslim fasting month of Ramadan] and Dulmatin stated, “Let’s go home to Pemalang for the vacation and drop off some things along the method.”
We kept stopping at churches, although I did not leave the cars and truck. Whenever we stopped at a church, I grew more suspicious that we were dropping off bombs due to the fact that the bundles were crammed in laptop computer bags.
I was sentenced for the battles although I did not make the bombs or leave the cars and truck since I existed and I didn’t do anything to stop it. Dulmatin then asked me to go on a journey to Bali in October 2002. We entered into a home which was currently filled with bomb making devices.
I met [JI members] Imam Samudra, Mukhlas, Idris and Dr Azahari. Imam Samudra stated that they desired vengeance for the profession of Palestine and the attack on Jenin [by Israeli forces in 2002 which killed more than 50 Palestinians as well as 23 Israeli soldiers]so they wished to bomb Westerners in bars in Bali. He ushered me into among the spaces in your house where all the components to make the bombs had actually been prepared.
I informed them, if we wished to get vengeance for the atrocities dedicated versus Muslims in Palestine, we must go to Palestine and not eliminate Westerners in Indonesia. I asked, “What is the relationship in between these individuals who will be victims and your intention of vengeance for Muslims in Palestine?”
I informed them that if they wished to eliminate Westerners in great deals utilizing a one-tonne bomb, it would not simply eliminate individuals in front of it. It would take off all over. I informed them that it would eliminate great deals of other individuals who were not their target.
I stated that a bomb would likewise likely trigger Muslim casualties. I asked, “Who will take duty in the next world [paradise] if there are Muslim victims since of this bomb?”
Imam Samudra stated that, on the day of judgement, everybody would be evaluated separately for their actions based upon their objectives.
I felt that there was no other way I might decline. Imam Samudra had actually locked the front door of your house so that nobody might leave.
I did it, and made the last 50kg [110lbs] of the bomb.
AJ: More than 200 individuals passed away in Bali as an outcome of the bomb you assisted to make. How do you feel about eliminating a lot of individuals?
Patek: I felt guilty when I blended the products for the bomb and I felt I was sinning. I felt I was breaking Indonesian law however, more than that, I felt it was a sin versus God.
AJ: Do you consider yourself to be a mass killer?
Patek: Yes. I feel that I am a killer and a sinner.
I have actually apologised to the victims of the Bali battle a number of times and consulted with the households of the victims of the battle, too. I informed them I was sorry. Everybody who has actually consulted with me personally has actually forgiven me. When I fulfill victims, I state, “I am Umar Patek and I was associated with the Bali battle,” then I describe why I existed, and apologise.
Some individuals do not wish to satisfy me and do not wish to forgive me, like individuals from Australia. That is their right, however my obligation as a Muslim, and somebody who has actually done incorrect, is to apologise. I do not understand if I will be forgiven, just God understands that.
I did not state sorry to leave jail early, however whatever is constantly incorrect in other individuals’s eyes. If I state sorry, individuals state I am pretending and it is a tactical option. If I didn’t apologise, individuals would state I was big-headed.
AJ: Did you concur with the 20-year jail sentence that you were offered?
Patek: I accepted it at the time. There is absolutely nothing reasonable in this life in the world, justice will just can be found in the hereafter.
AJ: Your release from jail was extremely questionable, especially in Australia, as you just served 11 years of your 20-year sentence. Should you have been released?
Patek: I satisfied all the requirements according to Indonesian law to get approved for release in 2022. I had actually likewise been extremely opposed to the concept of the Bali battle from the start. The witnesses at my trial all stated the very same, which is why I was sentenced to 20 years in jail [only]The main individuals in the Bali battle were sentenced to death or passed away in other methods like Dulmatin, who was shot by the authorities.
I last saw him in June 2009, when I got back from the Philippines to Jakarta. He asked me to go to a JI military college in Aceh, however I stated I didn’t wish to. I had actually had enough. I informed him I was simply transiting in Indonesia to get my passport and visa to go to Afghanistan. I wished to live there for the rest of my life and I asked him to come with me, however he declined.
He [Dulmatin] was shot in Pemulang in Tangerang [a city on the outskirts of Jakarta]I questioned if he had actually repented for his sins before he passed away. I never ever heard him state he felt regret or unhappiness about the victims of the Bali battle and about individuals who were not the target of the battle. He never ever stated anything about that and never ever requested for forgiveness.
I was unfortunate for him.
AJ: Is the killing of civilians ever validated?
Patek: When I remained in the Philippines with the [Moro front]I coped with [the chairman] Salamat Hashim and he would frequently preach to us. He highly prohibited mujahideen from assaulting civilians, not simply Muslims however likewise Christians. He stated that was not permitted, which just members of the army, or civilians who were combating with the army, and who were likewise bring weapons, were enabled to be assaulted.
He as soon as stated to me, “Why do you wish to wage jihad in Indonesia, who do you wish to battle there? The president is Muslim, the federal government is Muslim, individuals’s Representative Council is generally Muslim, great deals of cops are Muslim, the army has lots of Muslims. It is haram [forbidden] to assault them due to the fact that assaulting Muslims is not permitted.”
He felt that it was wrong to assault individuals in Indonesia, and I stated that at the time of the Bali battle, however nobody wished to listen to me.
AJ: What are your ideas on the Israel-Gaza war?
Patek: In the opening area of the 1945 Indonesian Constitution, it states that “all manifest destiny should be eliminated in this world”.
Profession anywhere, not simply in Palestine, is not permitted.
It is Hamas’s right to reclaim their land. The news that they are eliminating infants and kids is a scam committed by the Western media. Indonesia utilized to be inhabited by the Dutch colonialists. Would you call Indonesian heroes, who defended their self-reliance, terrorists? The Dutch would call them terrorists, however they were simply reclaiming their land.
AJ: Are you deradicalised now?
Patek: What is radicalised? If a Christian wishes to follow their religious beliefs according to the mentors of the Bible, would we call them radicalised?
I feel that the media has an incorrect picture of me as somebody who is frightening and harsh. They constantly paint me as somebody who threatens.
Individuals typically ask me why I do not wish to be a terrorist anymore and why I am so cooperative. I likewise state that it is from my household. They are the ones who melted my heart and set me back to the ideal course.
I am the earliest of 3 bros. All my member of the family are moderate Muslims, none have actually ever followed the exact same ideology I utilized to follow, and they have actually frequently faced me about it throughout the years.
If my household had actually stated they did not wish to have anything more to do with me due to the fact that of my old ideology, possibly I would still be extreme in my thinking, however luckily they welcomed me which enabled me to alter.
AJ: How do you feel about non-Muslims?
Patek: When I was a kid maturing, all my neighbours were Chinese Christians. I constantly utilized to have fun with them. Considering that I was young, I have actually constantly been around non-Muslims.
I do not dislike Christians. My spouse’s extended household are Christians and, when we got wed, we had no issues and took images together on our wedding.
When I wed my better half, I welcomed all of her household to the wedding event at Camp Abubakar. In the start, they didn’t wish to come since they were stressed we would cut their avoid. I informed them that the mujahideen did not hurt civilians, which we just assaulted the authorities and the army. I stated that I ensured their security.
In the Moro custom, when somebody got wed, mujahideen would shoot their weapons in the air to commemorate. Due to the fact that my spouse’s Christian household was there, I informed my fellow mujahideen, “Don’t do the conventional event due to the fact that we have Christians coming and it will terrify them.
“They will believe we are attempting to eliminate them.”